Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

PCB problems and fixes
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joaoljr
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 3rd, 2013, 9:08 pm

ninn wrote:
If I remember correctly, there was a rom-checksum-error in the beginning, but it started nevertheless some seconds later.
Ninn, the patch will display the following message for 1 second right at start:

BOBBLE BOBBLE REDUX

Is that what you saw and though it was a checksum error?

Note that I added this message to make sure people won't blame me when they buy a bootleg board that has this patch installed and mistake it for an original...

Punji

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idc
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by idc » January 3rd, 2013, 10:09 pm

For reference, the "BOBBLE BOBBLE REDUX" text disappears before the picture displays when I power my cab on. You may want to add two or three seconds more delay on it to allow monitors to warm up. ;)

Game is working fine for me. Nice work, been great following the progress you have made. :D
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 4th, 2013, 1:22 am

I'm happy with the results myself and I'm glad that others may enjoy it. I have repeatedly played both the original game and the patched bootleg and it seems they are virtually identical (just not so because I had to skip some of the enemy movement updates when the game starts to slow down).

The fact is that I tried to buy an original board, but they are very hard to find and/or too expensive. I had to render myself to buying a bootleg, but I didn't want to play a crippled version of the original game.

I was luck to be able to reuse most of the work done by the bootleggers and to have MAME as a tool. Most of the challenge was in learning my ways around the code. It was a great experience to me!

Punji

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 4th, 2013, 3:06 pm

I have followed Ian's suggestion and increased the initial message to around 3-4 seconds. I changed the message to "REPLICA VERSION" to be more descriptive and added a little animation... :-)

I also increased the game continue time to 5 seconds or so, as requested by Ninn.

New patch below.

Punji

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idc
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by idc » January 4th, 2013, 7:31 pm

8-)

I've noticed that in 2P mode, if there are no credits left, the players are briefly asked to "insert coin". However, here too there is no delay, and certainly no time to insert any more coins.

In short, I think this should have a similar delay added to allow coins to be inserted and start to be pressed.

Image

I wonder, should the game have behaved in a similar way in 1P mode also, effectively allowing time to "press start to continue" if there are credits left, or "insert coin" and then press start if there are none? It's not apparent to me since only Bob seems to walk onto screen with the little sign in 2P mode. Bub doesn't do this in 1P mode... :think:
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 4th, 2013, 7:59 pm

In my initial implementation of the game continue patch there was no restriction on credit availability. The result was exactly what you suggested, i.e., Bub would ask to "Insert coin" until the timer expired.

Now, I changed that because it seemed very weird for the in game music to continue playing in that situation. It is like I expect to hear the ending music and the final score presentation right away upon loosing my last life.

Please try for yourself:

bb4 image, offset 3D10: 28 19 -> 00 00

If we are to do that change, we should better increase the timeout even more, since 5 seconds is probably too little to add a coin. That will probably contribute more to my uneasiness...

Punji

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 4th, 2013, 8:58 pm

Another option altogether would be to allow the game to finish normally and then, instead of showing the "GAME OVER" screen, display "CONTINUE?" and a count down from 10 to 0. If the player has credit or adds a coin an presses the start button, the game would restart from the last level, otherwise the "GAME OVER" message would appear. Wouldn't that be more in line with other game continues out there? I'm just not sure how difficult it would be to implement that (and it would depart form being just a "replica").

Punji

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by ninn » January 4th, 2013, 9:18 pm

I would opt for no continue screen. It just happens to often, that both players go dead at the same time, and when the game ends then, both players loose interest. It is just not fair. :roll:

I was not even aware that you could change it that way at all, and i am sure that those some more seconds already helped a lot! Never tried it in a real game, but it sounds like a pretty useable fix to me!

I cant want wait try out the new versions!

And I am pretty sure I saw a checksum error. I will try to send you a photo as soon as I am home again.

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by porchio » January 4th, 2013, 9:31 pm

I'm looking forward to trying this when I get some free time again.
just a question though. All of the patches you have posted, do they ALL need to be applied or do I just need to apply the later ones?

thanks for your work on this, very impressive

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by idc » January 4th, 2013, 11:35 pm

joaoljr wrote:Another option altogether would be to allow the game to finish normally and then, instead of showing the "GAME OVER" screen, display "CONTINUE?" and a count down from 10 to 0. If the player has credit or adds a coin an presses the start button, the game would restart from the last level, otherwise the "GAME OVER" message would appear. Wouldn't that be more in line with other game continues out there? I'm just not sure how difficult it would be to implement that (and it would depart form being just a "replica").

Punji
Interesting idea, but I think there should just be a few seconds delay, whether in 1P mode or 2P mode, with credits ("press start" animation) or without ("insert coin" animation). It's apparent that this is what was originally intended, but for whatever reason it didn't work correctly in the released game. I do wonder if it was a bug/oversight, or whether it was done intentionally.

In the case of the "insert coin" animation, when there are no credits, I believe the delay should be just long enough for the animation to complete. Bub and Bob are supposed to walk on with signs which say "insert coin", stand there for a few seconds, and then walk back off the screen. The moment both sprites have left the screen, the player should then see the usual "game over" screen.

The in-game music continuing during this time doesn't seem too odd to me. There are other games which do this, and there are some which have different music, so it's not as though there is any kind of convention in that regard. I guess your uneasiness in this case is simply because you're used to the game behaving in a certain way - even if it is a mistake in the original! ;)

I'd suggest two patches - one with patched-in delays included, and one without the delays, like in the original. That is, of course, if you feel like doing it. It's not a demand, or even a request, just an idea! The work you have done on it is quite simply brilliant. :thumbup: :) :thumbupright:
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by emphatic » January 5th, 2013, 12:10 am

^^This sounds like a bug fix if you should implement the "wait for animation to finish" addition to your patch. Some games have flaws, no matter how lovely the games are. :awe:

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 5th, 2013, 1:33 am

The original game continue logic is part of the same routine that animates the "INSERT COIN" messages at the top of the screen. That same routine also checks each player status (dead or alive), the credit counter and the corresponding start button. If credit is available and the start button is pressed, the player is resurrected. That is what allows a second player to join the game at any time. It does not seem to be designed to handle the game continue at all, since it is only called once after both players die. In my opinion, the original game continue is a fluke, not something intentional.

I think Ian may be right when he says that I may be used to the original behavior. I agree having two patches is a good idea, one with exactly the same behavior as the original and another with the extended timing. For now, I have removed the credit check and changed the timing to allow for the "Insert coin" animation to complete before the game finishes, as he suggested (see below). I will see if I get used to it. I will publish the more faithful one later.

Punji

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joaoljr
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 5th, 2013, 2:15 am

porchio wrote:

just a question though. All of the patches you have posted, do they ALL need to be applied or do I just need to apply the later ones?
The patches are NOT incremental, except for one I released a while ago but already got incorporated to the latest ones.

Just apply the more recent patch over the "boblbobl" images used by MAME and burn new EPROMs to your board! Chances are it will work. Well, Ninn has reported a checksum error on his board, but we still need to confirm that... :roll:

Punji

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 5th, 2013, 12:59 pm

On a side note, I just ordered an AT28HC256 chip from eBay. This is a 32Kx8 EEPROM, but it can also be written to like a static RAM (with some restrictions), providing it gets a proper WR (write) signal.

Upon closer inspection of the address selection circuit used by the three ROMs for the main Z80 CPU (which is partially implemented by a PAL device, IC 49), we see that they will receive a CE (chip enable) signal even for a write cycle! This causes no harm because the RD (read) signal is connected to the OE (output enable) of the ROMs, preventing a short circuit in the data bus when a write operation is done.

Now, the ROM sockets do not have a WR signal, just the RD that I mentioned above, so I will need to make do with that by inverting it with a transistor. If everything goes right, this little mod will not require any modifications in the board whatsoever, just replacing one of the regular EPROM chips in the board with the AT28HC256 + transistor.

The AT28HC256 would be loaded with the bb4 image, which has enough free space left to use some of it for storing data. I should then be able to add a patch to save/restore the 5 entries in the high score table (35 bytes) and all the game counters (53 bytes) that dictate the next item to show up! :awe:

Bear in mind that it will take some time for the chip to arrive... I will post an update once I get some results.

Punji

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by ninn » January 6th, 2013, 12:17 am

you were right, it was a bubble bobble redux screen. :angel:
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by joaoljr » January 9th, 2013, 6:10 pm

I split the game continue patch from the base patch, so it may now be applied incrementally if desired.

I also added a small readme with instructions.

Punji

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M````````(`"V@8(#``!B8C,N<&%T8VA02P$"%``4``(`"`#L@"E"HWN[#:@"
M``!'!0``"@`````````!`"``MH$`!```<F5A9&UE+G1X=%!+!08`````!@`&
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end

User avatar
golani
Posts: 50
Joined: October 20th, 2011, 2:36 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by golani » January 15th, 2013, 10:58 pm

hello,
first i love the bobble bubble game.
i have also a bootleg board here and the white ghost did not fire the red firballs.

i cannot handle the xdelta3-3.0.4-x86-32 programm !?

thank you
simon
Last edited by golani on March 30th, 2013, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
idc
Posts: 1341
Joined: October 16th, 2008, 9:17 pm
Location: Tamworth, Staffordshire
Initials: IAN
Contact:

Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by idc » January 16th, 2013, 12:29 am

golani wrote:hello,
first i love the bobble bubble game.
i have also a bootleg board here and the white ghost did not fire the red firballs.
it is possible to get this file as download?

i cannot handle the xdelta3-3.0.4-x86-32 programm !?

thank you
simon
https://ianc.net/temp/boblbobl/boblbobl ... -01-09.zip"
ImageImageImageImage
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User avatar
golani
Posts: 50
Joined: October 20th, 2011, 2:36 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by golani » January 16th, 2013, 8:33 pm

hello,
now the bobble bubble bootleg works great!

thank you very much !!! :)
simon

User avatar
golani
Posts: 50
Joined: October 20th, 2011, 2:36 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by golani » January 17th, 2013, 11:42 pm

I consistently get after levels 42 and the game freezes.
i tried many times.
highest level i reached is level 78 and the game freezes
sound working still.
insert coin works also.
nothing more.
simon
Last edited by golani on March 30th, 2013, 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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